His Grace Sankarshan Das Adhikari

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Durul Home Program, Part 2

Istanbul, 27 April 2005

Semi-formal question and answer session taking place during refreshment break

Q - [begins with conversation in progress]

A –

. . . the same thing is stated in the Koran.

It says, “I am the one Who sees from your eyes; I am the one Who hears from your ears.”

Yes.  That Supreme Being has further expanded Himself out as His separated parts and parcels.  It is His divine energy that empowers you to see and to hear, etc.  That’s right.

Q –

But God is merciful.  Why does He allow us to suffer?

A –

Actually there is an example given in this connection.  My teacher, when he was a married man, had one son who fascinated by the whirling blade of the fan, and he always wanted to stick his hand in the fan.  Of course, it would severely injure his hand if he did that.  So the parents thought, “How can we train this boy so that he will not stick his hand into the fan?”  What they did is they turned the fan to a very low setting, very slow, and they allowed the boy to stick his hand in the fan.  He suffered some pain and started crying as a result, but it didn’t injure his finger.

Likewise, the Lord actually doesn’t want you to suffer.  But to help you understand that you are not meant to enjoy separately from Him, to help you understand that you are always meant to be serving Him and loving Him, He allows you to experience some difficulty in order to wake you up and bring you to your senses.  So that ‘suffering’ is actually His kindness upon you.  That’s His love for you that He allows you to experience some degree of discomfort so you can come back to this position and get free from discomfort for once and for all.  That is His love.

Actually, we have caused our own suffering by our foolishly misusing our free will.  The Lord is not the cause of our suffering; we are the cause of our own suffering because we misused our free will.  But the Lord is very kind.  He gives us the scriptures and he gives us great teachers who train us how to properly utilize our free will to get us out of that suffering.  So an intelligent person realizes, “I am suffering; I don’t feel this is natural; I don’t think this is right.  How can I get out of this suffering condition?”  And when you’re in that state of mind, the Lord from within will manifest externally as the spiritual master, who will then teach you how to get out of that suffering condition.

So that’s the kindness of the Lord.  The Lord is actually always kind.  He is never unkind to His beloved children; he is always kind to them.  As a father, you were raising your children, and sometimes you had to scold them out of love, didn’t you?  To protect them?


[other person]  Sometimes slapped them, too.

Ah, yes.  That is out of love to teach a child in such a way for his own benefit.  So could you say that the parent wanted the child to suffer when he maybe slapped him or scolded him?  The child thought, “Oh, my parents are making me suffer.  They’re inflicting suffering on me.”  But actually that is the love of the parent to train the child in such a way that he can avoid suffering.  The parent who never wants to see the child suffering will train the child in such a way that he will be free from suffering.  The child will misunderstand and take it that the parent is forcing him to suffer, when actually it’s the love of the parents to help the child not to suffer.  It’s the same way with God.  He doesn’t want us to suffer ever.  We mistakenly think, “God is making me suffer.” 

Q –

Are we separate from God?  That is, although my child is my son or my daughter, we are separate persons.  But with God, I don’t think that he is something separate from us. 

A –

It’s a fact that God is not separate from us, but at the same time He is separate.  This is a highly advance philosophical understanding which I will explain to you in detail.

We are simultaneously one with and separate from God.  In India it’s very popular to say that we are one with God, that we are God.  That’s very common.  That is true qualitatively.  Qualitatively you are God; that’s a fact because God is eternal and God is full of bliss and knowledge and so are you.  As an example, take one drop of Bosporus water.  If I say, “This is Bosporus water” my statement is true.  The drop in my hand is Bosporus.  You could not deny that – it is Bosporus, isn’t it?  But if I say, “This is the Bosporus” then my statement is not true.  There is a subtle difference between these two statements in the English language.  If it were “the Bosporus” then I could float a ship from the Black Sea to the Marmara Sea through my hand, and I can’t do that.  A ship will not fit in my hand.  I can say, “It is Bosporus” because it is indeed Bosporus water, but I cannot say, “It is the Bosporus,en toto.  So you are God, yes; but you are a tiny sample of God.  You are not the total God.  You are cognizant of the pains and pleasures of your body only.  The total, complete God is conscious of the pains and pleasures of in everyone’s body.

Some people say, “All right; now I’m the partial God.  But when I become self-realized I will become the total God.”  That is a common philosophy.  But if you are actually the total God then you simply have to realize: what is separating you from realizing Him?  If you are the total God, and you have absolute power over everything, then what could possibly separate you from realizing that you are the total God?  Nothing could.  So to say that the partial God, which you in fact are – you are part of God – can be supported, but you cannot argue that you are the total God.  You simply have to understand that if you were, then nothing could ever separate you from that realization and your being that total God.  Therefore you are eternally the part and parcel of God, but you are qualitatively one with Him, just as a drop of Bosporus water is of exactly the same quality as the entire Bosporus.  It’s the same, exact chemical composition. 



What about the hand and the body example?

A –

That’s a different example.  It is not the same principle; that is not the acintya-bhedabheda . . .   That’s the enjoyment principle.

Hand is not same as body . . . ? 

No; it has a different function.  We never use that example for acintya-bhedabheda . . . [it does not apply].

[Back to group]

Are there any other questions?

[same individual who has been inquiring]  I have lots of questions!

Yes – you ask them!

[Mataji, to inquirer]:  He [Gurudeva] has an email address too; you can ask him . . .

And you can ask now, too.  Now is very good, because everyone gets the benefit.

So we are able to communicate to you through email?

Yes. Which one are you on the list?

The first one.

So the first listed email address is yours.  I want to know when I get an email from you that this is yours coming to me.  What is your name?


Ahmet . . . so, Mr. Ahmet, do you have any more questions that you would like to ask me now?

Q –

Well, I’ve read about the advaita.

Advaita philosophy, yes. 

 The unity and the oneness are very strongly stressed there.

A –

Yes.  Advaita philosophy states that everything is one, period, and that there’s nothing but the oneness: everything is one; there’s nothing besides the one; that’s all there is.

But still, I feel the separateness of myself.

Yes.  If everything were absolutely one, then you could never feel separateness.  How would it be possible, if everything were one, that you could ever feel separateness?  It would not be possible.  So the fact that you feel separateness indicates that there is something besides one.  But how to make that separateness enlightened separateness – that is the philosophy called dvaitadvaita: simultaneous advaita and dvaita.

There is advaita philosophy and there is dvaita philosophy.  Dvaita is the philosophy of dualism, and advaita is the philosophy of monism.  The perfection is when you take both philosophies.  You have thesis, antithesis and synthesis.  Advaita is thesis, dvaita is antithesis, and dvaitadvaita is synthesis.  When you synthesize advaita and its antithesis, dviata, you come to a higher philosophy.  You come to dvaitadvaita, simultaneous duality and non-duality.  So that is actually a higher philosophy.  That philosophy includes the unqualified philosophy of oneness and the philosophy of separateness.

Separateness is a reality that we live in.  We cannot deny it.  We feel it at every minute.  But if we can find the true oneness within separateness and the true separateness within oneness, then we reach perfection.  It’s artificial to simply deny separateness and say that all is one.  But to learn the art of how to find oneness within separateness and separateness within oneness – that is perfection.  Oneness and separateness are both there; they coexist eternally.

Q –

I think many people are thinking about this also.  How can we manage all these things while leading our daily lives?  There is this fighting going on; you have to win.

A –

Yes, that’s right.  When you’re running a business you have to fight off the competitors.

[other person]  And feed the kids.

Yes.  Feed the kids, feed yourself – yes, yes.  That’s why you have to take this Bhagavad-gita.  Everyone should purchase a Gita tonight because this Bhagavad-gita was spoken to a professional person.  Arjuna was a professional warrior.  He was thinking, “I want to become spiritually enlightened; I just want to quit my job and go sit down and meditate.”  Krishna said no; you go ahead and perform your normal duty as a warrior, but do it in this enlightened consciousness that I am now giving you.

I have students all over the world.  Some of them live in asramas as renunciates, and others don’t.  I have one who works for IBM Corporation; he’s a very valuable employee of IBM Corporation.  I have another who runs his own business; he runs a radio station in Riga, Latvia.  So whatever you are doing, under the guidance of a bona fide spiritual master, you can learn how to run your business - how to govern a country, even – in an enlightened state of consciousness.

A train runs on two rails, doesn’t it?  If you’ve studied the Isopanisad, you’ve seen that it says, vidyam cavidyam ca yas tad vedobhayam saha. [Iso Mantra 11] You have knowledge and ignorance, or spirit and matter.  Both things are there.  It says that one has to understand what is knowledge and what is ignorance in order to achieve the full blessings of immortality.  So if you actually want to achieve that divine consciousness, then you have to expertly be able to deal with both matter and spirit simultaneously.

Actually, that material nature that you deal with in your job or in your business is actually the inferior nature of God.  Ultimately everything is spiritual.  If you see that material nature in relationship with God, then you can deal with it expertly.  In fact, my guru used to say that a Krishna conscious businessman can aspire to be the wealthiest businessman in the whole world.  So there’s nothing against material expertise.  In fact, a self-realized person, a Krishna conscious person, becomes very expert at dealing with the material nature - very expert.  It’s one of the twenty-six qualities of a Krishna conscious being, an enlightened being, is that he is expert in everything.  Whether he’s running a business or managing a country; whether he’s just a college student or whatever – he becomes expert in everything, even material things.  This is because he sees everything in relation with God and because in fact everything exists in relationship with God.  Nothing is actually separate from God.  Everything exists in relationship with God.  Everything.  There is nothing which is actually separate from God.  So one who has that vision of how everything is in relationship with God can deal with everything perfectly, and is a spiritually enlightened being.  And this includes defeating competitors in the business world. 

If I am enlightened?  I cannot see that.  The business life is one of continuous competition.  Somebody wins and the others lose.

Yes, that’s right.

The ‘win’ situation is not the real thing because if I win, somebody loses and suffers. 

But actually all you businessmen lose.  At the time of death you all have to bow down.  You all lose.  Every one of you is a loser.  Bill Gates will also be a loser ultimately, even though he’s the top dog now in the business world.  You will also be a loser.  Every businessman is a loser – unless he becomes spiritually enlightened.  Otherwise, every businessman becomes a loser by the laws of nature.  You cannot win.  You may be a multi-billionaire, but when death comes you cannot pay a doctor to keep you alive.  When the higher authorities in the universe say, “Get out” you have to get out.  That’s all. 

But why is leading the daily life –

That is simply a covering cloud of maya, illusion.  Your death is coming at any minute and now you’re thinking you will enjoy as a successful businessman.  It’s like a goat who’s in the slaughterhouse, getting ready to be slaughtered – and he’s looking for some she-goat for sex enjoyment.  He’s not thinking about how he can escape the slaughterhouse; he’s looking for a she-goat for sex enjoyment while he’s standing there in line waiting to get his throat cut.  Similarly, in the name of making money, we forget that our actual duty is to get free from death.

Once you are free from death, then you can make money.  We have no objection.  But your first business is to become free from death.  And then you can make money, because then you can use that money to free other people from death also. 

So what should we do?  Leave the daily life and –

You should read Bhagavad-gita every day.  You have this Gita here?


Study this book every day.  And take my course.  I recommend a regular program of chanting the names of God every day on the prayer beads, and I recommend a vegetarian diet as well, a diet of food that is offered to the Lord before eating - that will free you up karmically.  I recommend the vegetarian diet.  I’m sorry if I’m spoiling your eating right now.  [laughs]  But you asked me, and it’s my duty to tell you – I’m like a doctor; I have to tell you what the cure is for the sickness of material life.  It’s my duty to tell you, whether it’s pleasant or unpleasant.  Actually, it will ultimately be pleasant; but sometimes what I say may appear to be unpleasant.  So please understand that what I say is actually very pleasant and very wonderful, although it may appear to be jarring and unpleasant in the beginning.  It’s all pleasant. 

Q –

About being a disciple: does this mean to surrender everything to a master?


Being a disciple does actually mean that you conduct your life under the direction of the spiritual master.  But the spiritual master is not going to disrupt your daily life.  For example, if you said, “Okay, I would like to become your disciple,” I’m not going to say, “Okay, sign all your bank accounts over to me.”  I wouldn’t do that.  I would say, “You remain like you are now, you run your business and  keep your family, but follow some simple principles: adopt a vegetarian diet, chant the names of God regularly in the morning; study the Bhagavad-gita.  I wouldn’t ask you to sign your bank account over to me – I wouldn’t do that.  I simply want to guide you in how to live your present life.  You stay in your present position, with your business and your family, but simply learn the art of how to do it in a spiritually enlightened way.  In other words, I don’t want to take anything from you.  I just want to teach you how to do what you are doing now in a way that you will become enlightened, that’s all.  You keep your bank account, keep your business, keep what is your personal property, but just learn how to use it in an enlightened way, in the service of God.  That’s all.  That’s what I will teach you how to do. 

Q –

If I am not mistaken, you said that all the businessmen are losers.  Is that right?

A –

At death you lose everything; that’s right.

At death.

Yes.  At death everything is lost.  You may become the wealthiest businessman in the world, but at the time of death there is no difference between you and a pauper.  You see?  There is no difference.  You’re in the same position as a poor man or a beggar on the street at the time of death - unless you become spiritually enlightened.  Then you have conquered over everyone.  You become the greatest conqueror in this world.  Greater than a Hitler or a Mussolini or one of the great Ottoman emperors, the great sultans of the Ottoman Empire.  You become the greatest conqueror if you conquer death by becoming a spiritually enlightened being. 

Q –

Okay, now may I ask you something else?  As a Catholic, one of course believes in the Lord Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit, and then Heaven and Hell and also Purgatory.  There’s Purgatory, too. 

Yes; the Catholics talk about Purgatory.  What is your question?  I will be happy to answer it.   

If you are spiritually enlightened as a Catholic and you may not go to Heaven, you will go to Purgatory. 

A –

A spiritually enlightened being is totally beyond all designations of Muslim, Catholic, Christian, Jew – these are man-made designations, actually.  A spiritually enlightened being is one who has realized his eternal relationship with God.  God is not a particular sect.  We may address Him as a Muslim or a Christian or a Hindu or a Jew, but actually He’s beyond these designations.  So when you realize your relationship with God you have transcended all sectarian conceptions.  If you become a pure lover of God you go to Him and live with Him eternally; it’s a very simple thing.  It doesn’t matter whether you’re a Catholic, a Jew, a Muslim or whatever.  If you become a pure lover of God, you go to His kingdom and live with Him eternally.  That’s a fact. 

Well, it’s a very good thing, when people are saying it, because all religions say – I’ll put it the Christian way – that if you don’t accept Christ into your life, you will not get to heaven.  With the Jewish faith, it’s the same thing; with the Muslims it’s the same thing – that you have to accept the Prophet Mohammed, or whatever.  So each religion has a category: that you’re either going to be that believer or not that believer –

Right.  But the thing is, with a higher understanding you the real fact that once you actually become a pure lover of God, then automatically you accept Jesus; automatically you accept Mohammed - automatically you accept all of them because they are all actually teaching the same principle.  It’s just that in our own material conceptions we have divided it out into these fighting things, you see.  But on the spiritually enlightened level, Mohammed and Jesus and Buddha and Krishna are all teaching the same thing.  It’s just our own vision that has made this distinction.  We’ve created these problems out of things like our own political considerations or selfishness; but actually on the enlightened platform, your love of God is the one common denominator: pure love for God.  The name may be different – Allah, Jehovah, Krishna, Buddha – but the person is the same.  The Supreme Person, the origin of everything that exists, is the same.  Your father is the same whether I describe him in the Arabic language or English language.  He’s still your father.  Likewise, God is one.  He’s your Father, the Father of all living beings. 

Questions more?

Q –

Is your type of loving God the same as . . .  They say we are living with . . . God in the world. They live in the material world and they live in another world while life is continuing.

You mentioned some other name.  I don’t know his philosophy.

It’s the same as you told us.  They live in the material world and not in the material world, in another world; and they left the material world . . . Is this the same as your kind of loving God?  I cannot understand when you say ‘loving God.’

Love of God means surrender to the will of the Lord.  If you love someone, you do everything to please them, don’t you?  If I love you - as a brother, as a friend, as a human being – that means I want to do everything to make you happy, if I really love you.  I don’t want to displease you or offend you in any way.  I want to do everything to make you happy, to make you satisfied.  That’s true love.  Love means I just care about pleasing my beloved person.  So that is actual love of God.  When I want to do everything for His pleasure and His satisfaction.  That is love for God. 

How can you be sure that he’s happy when you –

For that, you have to know Him.  You have to know what pleases Him.  That’s why we have realized teachers who come to this world and educate us in what pleases the Lord.  Because it’s a fact that unless you know Him, how will you know? 

Then we must make contact with God.

That’s right.  You have to either directly contact God or you have to contact someone who is in contact with God. 

Otherwise it will be just a lie, that I love God and He is pleased.

You mean, if you just assume that He is pleased?

[Mataji]: That will happen in one’s action also . . .

I’ll give you an example. When I was a young man, in my twenties, I realized that my perfection in life would be to everything for the pleasure of God.  But I didn’t know what would please Him specifically.  I was praying to Him every morning, saying, “Dear God, please guide me in how I can be your perfect servant.”  I knew that I wanted to have Him reveal to me what His specific will was, but I didn’t know what it was.  I was waiting for some divine voice to tell me, “Okay, this is what I want you to do.”  But I wasn’t getting that voice.  So what to do?

I did know one thing, however.  I knew that even though I was not able to hear what God was saying to me, He could hear what I was saying to Him.  God is omniscient; He knows everything.  He’s all-knowing; I’m not.  So I was simply praying to Him: “Dear God, please guide me in how I can be your perfect servant.”  I prayed to Him again and again and again and again.  Then He brought me into contact with a teacher who had perfect knowledge of what pleased Him.  And that teacher guided me in how to perfectly train myself so that every thought, every word and every deed that I engaged in, in all times, all places and all circumstances, would be 100% pleasing to God.

So I found a guru, a teacher, who taught me the science called bhakti-yoga, the science of devotion.  He taught me the scientific system of how every thought, word and deed could be engaged in such a way as to be pleasing to God twenty-four hours a day - whether I’m in Istanbul or London or Texas – wherever I am, in any situation - on the street, at home, in my apartment, in an office, in a school, anywhere – how to be completely, purely, fully absorbed in pleasing God.  So I’ve been doing that now for thirty-four years and teaching it all over the world.  And I can teach it to you, also, if you’re eager to learn that.

Did you sign up for the e-course yet?  Oh, good, very good.  So I can teach it to you.  And you can just try it – say, “Oh, it sounds good; maybe it’s true, maybe it’s not true . . .”  I can understand that everyone is skeptical.  It’s a natural thing.  We’ve been cheated so many times, haven’t we?  Every businessman may cheat us also; he will say, “For you, no profit.  I’ll give you a super deal – I’m losing money on this deal” – when actually he raked in the money on it.  For business one might have to do that to make success, so we’re a little used to being hyped by advertising.  But we’re not charging money; we’re simply giving you this knowledge to help you and bless you.  If you try this sincerely, you will find that it is strikingly wonderful.  If you try actually applying this bhakti-yoga system that we’re teaching, you will find it to be strikingly wonderful – strikingly wonderful from your own personal experience.  You will learn how to please God concretely and tangibly – not in just some imaginary idea.  You will learn how to please God tangibly with every thought, every word and every deed in all times, all places, and every single circumstance you may be in - at school, at work, traveling anywhere in the world – even at the moment of death – how to become completely pleasing to the Lord.  That we will teach you, if you want to learn.

Q –

So what you are teaching is bhakti-yoga?

A –

Yes, it’s called bhakti-yoga.  That’s right.

Surrendering to God . . .

Yes, completely surrendering.  It means “devotional service.”  A good translation in English is “devotional service” – serving the Lord with love and devotion.  That’s called bhakti-yoga

In Bhagavad-gita there are also other types of yoga mentioned.

Yes, that’s right.  If you look in Chapter Six, Text Number 47, you will see that Krishna says

yoginam api sarvesam
sraddhavan bhajate yo mam
sa me yuktatamo matah

He says, “Of all these different yogis I have described to you, Arjuna, that one who does bhakti is the highest yogi.”  So Krishna, for comparative understanding, has described so many different yoga systems.  But then He authoritatively states in Chapter Six, Text 47, that this bhakti-yoga system is the topmost yoga system. 

Q –

What do you think of the Kabbalah things?

A –

I am not familiar with that.  You will have to tell me what the tenets are.  Then I can explain.  You can tell me about any philosophical system – give me the points of that philosophy - and I can tell you what is good about that system and what is not so good about that system.

[no response]

That’s some mystical Judaism, I understand.  Actually when you come to the essence of any religious system it’s all the same teaching.  When you boil it down to the purest essence, there’s no difference.  A Jewish mystic, a Sufi, a Muslim mystic, a Krishna-conscious mystic – anyone who has actually had mystical experience of God - have all had the same experience because God is one.  But those who haven’t realized the true essence will find so many differences.  And they will fight.  That means that they have not actually realized the essence of the thing.  They are caught up on a superficial, material platform.  They haven’t gone to the depths of the ocean yet; they’re still up there on the waves, going up and down on the waves.  Even during a heavy hurricane, when the ocean is very turbulent, if you go deep enough within the ocean there’s no turbulence.  With bhakti-yoga, you learn how to dive very, very deep.  Actually, the ocean of love of God has no bottom.  You can go deeper and deeper and deeper and deeper for all of eternity and you never hit bottom.  It never gets boring; it never gets old - because you just keep going deeper and deeper and deeper into the science of love of God. 

Q –

I’m trying to remember this, but I might make mistakes.  In the first chapter of Bhagavad-gita, there is this war scene where Arjuna refuses to fight.

That’s right.

Then God says, “You have to fight because it’s your destiny.”

“You’re duty” – yes – “Do it for Me.”

And then, “They are already dead.”


So this eliminates free will, because if it is already destined -

A –

No, no.  Arjuna had the choice of fighting or not fighting.  Krishna showed Arjuna, “Don’t worry about killing them, because actually they are killed by My arrangement.  Whether you do it or somebody else does, they’re all going to be dead.”  But Arjuna had the free will to fight or not to fight.  That they would all be killed was going to happen either way.  So Arjuna didn’t have to worry, “Oh, I will be the cause of their deaths.”  He didn’t have to worry; that was already going to happen.  But he had the choice to fight or not to fight.  He had that free will. 

Questions more? 

Q –

Is this for real?  [referring to the Vaisanava tilaka marking]

A –

You were not here earlier when we answered that question.  Because you have come late, we will answer for you also.  This is the sign of one who has conquered over death. 

That means you are deathless . . . ?

Yes, I am deathless.  I have realized my true spiritual identity and engaged myself purely in –

Soul life?

I am purely engaged on the spiritual platform, twenty-four hours a day, seven days a week, in all times, all places and all circumstances.  Even though I am acting within this material world, I am not acting in material consciousness.  My spiritual master has taught me very carefully how to be purely situated on the spiritual platform twenty-four hours a day, in all situations.  That’s why I wear this sign of conquering over death. 

I asked if your body will die.

The body will fall away just like this garment.  I take the garment off but I am not killed. 

Q –

I would also like to ask another question.  You said that in order to have contact with God you have to find a teacher who is in contact with God. 

A –

That’s right.  Of course, if you [yourself] have come directly in contact with God, that would also be there, if you can do that; but it is not an easy thing to have direct audience with God.  He is very far away in the spiritual world.  He is very much not easy to contact.  But if His representative comes before you, then through His representative you can get contact with Him.

How many of your friends are in this room right now?  Some are here, but you have many friends who are not in this room, don’t you?


So how do you contact them?  On your mobile phone, don’t you?  With your mobile phone you can easily contact them, right?


And by thinking of them?  What I’m saying is that the mobile phone gives you some easy way to contact them, even if they’re at a distance.  I have my mobile phone here - I’ll give you a graphic example.  I have my mobile phone, and I have international roaming . . . this will pick up any network and connect me; I can go anywhere in this world and be connected . . . So even though I don’t have direct connection through this mobile phone, I can call anyone anywhere in the world, from wherever I am – from Finland, Latvia, Estonia, Lithuania, India – from anywhere I go in the world, I can call you immediately.  You give me your mobile phone number and I can call you from anywhere in the world. 

So, even though you and I may be separated by some great distance of many, many miles, by this technology we are connected, aren’t we?  Likewise, God may be with us or He may not be with us, but Guru is like the mobile phone.  Through the medium of Guru you can easily connect with God wherever you are.  That is the mercy of having contact with Guru.  He is like the mobile phone.  He connects you with your beloved Lord. 

Could you maybe say that he [Guru] does not connect, but rather that he teaches how you are connected already?

This is a crude example, yes.  The fact is that you are connected with God but you have forgotten how to be connected with Him.  You have that connection because God is in your heart.  But you have forgotten the art of how to be connected with Him.  The whole modern society has lost this art.  Formerly everyone knew this art.  Before, over 5,000 years ago, everyone knew how to connect with God within their heart.  But our modern-day society has gotten so caught up in money, power and prestige that we’ve forgotten this ancient science.  So the spiritual master teaches you how to connect with God within your heart. 

Q –

I have one last question.  Are you a vegetarian?


And you teach your students to be vegetarian?


Every human is unique – we know that – and maybe your ancestors did not eat meat.

Oh, no – my ancestors ate meat 

Okay . . . My ancestors – my father’s father’s father’s fathers – have always eaten meat. 

 Yes, yes; mine did too.

So it is in my DNA, we can say that – it is that my body is –

Oh no, no, no, no, no.  I understand your argument 


A –

Let us look at it scientifically.  You brought up DNA –

Yes, yes – maybe the DNA is not right for it.

No, no.  Let’s look at it scientifically.  Study a carnivorous animal like a tiger – a meat-eating animal, like a tiger.  Then study an herb-eating animal, a vegetarian animal like a monkey.  Study the anatomy of the bodies – the length of the colon, the jaw, the teeth – and you will find that your body is actually suited for a vegetarian diet.

I know that.

So your DNA is vegetarian, actually.  It’s just by conditioning passed down from generation to generation that you become a meat-eater.  But by nature you are actually a vegetarian. 

I know.  My anatomy is created for eating vegetables.  But my ancestors have always –

That is simply cultural.  That is not physiological, that is cultural. 

But for karma . . .

You can change your karma.  Now that’s true – karmically, you are coming in a family of meat-eaters.  I admit, that is your karma; that is true.  But you have to understand that karma will oblige you to become an animal in your next life and be slaughtered in the slaughterhouse in your next birth.  By your karma, in your next lifetime, you have to become an animal and be slaughtered by the butcher.  That is your karma.  But that karma you can change.  If you take up a vegetarian diet and offer all your food to the Lord before eating, you can change that karma.  Otherwise you can only say, “All of my ancestors became animals in their next lives and they all got slaughtered, so I’m also going to become slaughtered along with them.”

That’s not bad . . .

Would you like to go a slaughterhouse and be slaughtered for your meat?

I will judge.  If I have to eat, I can eat.

I’m just saying, would you like to be slaughtered?  And have somebody eat your flesh?

[no response]

If we said, “Okay, tonight we will slaughter you”- do you volunteer?  “Yes, everyone can have me for dinner tonight.”

[laughing]  Okay . . .

Actually, there was one man in Germany who agreed, when he heard about that.  One man wanted to be a cannibal and the other man agreed, “Yes, you can eat me.”  So, some people are crazy.  They think that is very nice. 

[Mataji]  They do not understand the value of human life.

The human life is very valuable.  It is not meant for having your flesh being eaten or eating someone else’s flesh.  That is not your human form of life.  It is not meant for that purpose.  The human form of life is meant for realizing what is God and your relationship with God.  That is you human life.  That is what will give you unlimited happiness, not eating flesh. 

Any more questions?

Okay.  So now, how many people want Bhagavad-gita?  They are now available.  We are getting ready to go in a few minutes.  Anyone who wants to get one, please come forward and take one, and give some contribution to help with the printing costs. 

Q –

Can I ask you a question?  What do you think about alcoholic drinks?

A –

Alcoholic drinks?

Ask yourself:  Why do people drink alcohol?  Because they want to get a little high, right? 

Maybe – maybe just for pleasure.

To feel a little higher?  A little relaxed?  To where to anxieties go away?  Isn’t that why people drink?  I also like to get high, and be happy and feel a little more relaxed -

With meditation.

I chant the names of God instead of taking alcohol.

 I’m sorry - [interruption/side conversation]  . . . okay, I’m listening to you.

So we chant the names of God, and that is our alcohol.  We chant the names of God and that gets us very high and very happy.  And we find that when we drink alcohol it brings us down instead of taking us up.  By chanting God’s names we go up, but we find that alcohol brings us down, so we don’t take alcohol – not because we are giving it up artificially, but because we have found a higher taste, a higher pleasure than alcohol.  That’s why we give it up. 

Thank you.

[Book distribution and autograph session begins – various conversations taking place]

Q –

Do you have any healing energy - that when you touch somebody someplace, you heal it?

A –

Our healing is on the highest level.  I am not a person who heals physical sickness, no . . .

[End recording]


Transcribed by Her Grace Labangalatika devi dasi

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